Depends on population density. Even if there was passenger train service on the existing lines here, a lot of people would need a vehicle to get to the station, and I don’t think public buses / vans could cover all the roads at a reasonable schedule.
But, also, you don’t have to get very dense before public transport is better than individual vehicles for intracity trips.
If public transit was valued by the local government, the city would be built in a way to make that work ok. If cars are valued, the city is built to be driven in.
I could see some very well-meaning folks in local government being boxed in by citizens on one side that make their luxury SUVs and even more luxurious pickup trucks into major parts of their identities, and then the various layers of government above them driving the standards that make all of our towns samey-looking stroads. I’m in the US if that wasn’t obvious, and the car-centrism runs deep.
I’m a middle aged dude and my house was build multiple decades before I was born. Back then my neighborhood was designed 100% for cars. They even put in drainage ditches that precluded the addition of sidewalks. But several years back the township did paint a walking path down one side of my street.
The new neighborhoods built in the last decade are mostly the same as far as being car-only. They usually have sidewalks and you will see people taking walks or children playing. But it’s only local recreation, to walk the dog or to visit a neighbor. If you need to go to the grocery store, it’s time to hop into the 2-3 ton family vehicle.
I will give my local government and developers credit though, that some recent projects have been to create what look like islands of walkable community. I have look through the businesses and see if they have groceries and the like. From what I’ve seen the neighborhood seems to be densely packed expensive apartments and townhomes that were rapidly built en masse, and then in the center there’s a grassy field and some breweries and restaurants and stuff. So possibly some very American designs going on there.
From what I’ve seen the neighborhood seems to be densely packed expensive apartments and townhomes that were rapidly built en masse, and then in the center there’s a grassy field and some breweries and restaurants and stuff. So possibly some very American designs going on there.
I used to live in one of these kind of complexes. It was even next to a river with a nice little 2 mile trail along it. At first I thought it would be cool to live within a short walk of things. There was a convenience store that was quite nice. However, the owner told me that the complex told them they couldn’t sell nicotine products “to keep homeless out”. That shouldve been a red flag. Then the convenience store closed in favor of a fancy coffee shop. Then a fancy German restaurant with outdoor seating. Suddenly I felt like I lived in an outdoor mall. The site for that apartment complex was previously used for the states death row so I guess it’s still an improvement from that.
eww, yeah I can see that happening and a lot of people liking it too.
Even though our suburban neighborhoods are designed to be pro-car and anti-community, the one nice thing about the single family home and little fenced in yard setup is that I can keep some natural beauty close by.
I agree, by the time you really deserve the term “city” you should provide public transit as a community good and it can be made so that most people want to use it.
I’m in the “city” of Cove, Arkansas. It’s a 15 minute drive to the nearest produce section, and I have to work remotely because there aren’t computer programmer jobs within a reasonable commute.
At low densities, EVs are the way to go. The more dense, the more public transit makes sense.
I do still wish passenger rail service was restored along the line through here to the county seat; there are days it would save me a drive.
Yup. Here in Chicago we now have bike racks inside the trains so you can bring your bike into the city on the metra, as well as allowed in all trains including the colored lines outside of peak hours
I think distance is a pretty good reason not to. Just not wanting to is a fair excuse too, honestly. A car is convenient.
That said, at the point where the weather prohibits going by bicycle, in my experience at least, you generally just don’t go anywhere because it’d be perilous in a car as well. I recall when I visited Kiruna some years ago, other than the cars, most people I saw were getting around on kicksleds and bicycles. Even saw a couple of dog sleds.
As for kids, what I’ve generally seen here are three options; chariots (can usually hold up to two kids), parcel shelf seats (one child), or the kid bikes themselves. I was taught to ride a bicycle at three, and at seven I biked to and from school on my own.
Granted, in the U.S. I can see this not happening on account of everything being so bloody spread out that you need a car, and even if you did put up with the distance, the infrastructure isn’t there; you can’t go on the motorway with a bicycle. Urban planning over in the states is abysmal.
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains.
I, personally, could bike or walk because the station would be particularly close to my residence. But, there are others in the county where to get to the closest station they’d be biking much further than they are currently healthy enough to accomplish.
Bikes are not a good option at this density either.
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains.
Raincoats! I have a nice yellow raincoat that folds up and inverts into its own pocket, turning into a little square you can tuck away in a bag or something. It’s super convenient.
Ablest is when pro environment . Yeah no. It’s easy to create exceptions for the small portion of the population who is fully incapable of biking. Less car dependency will allow those who can’t drive to get around far more safely, actually leading to more mobility for people with issues like legal blindness that prevent them from driving but not prevent them from other multimodal forms of transit
We’ve been trying to get a LRT in a 400k population area for decades and can’t make it happen. There’s even an old unused rail line with right of way all the way from the biggest nearby municipality that causes all the traffic problems to downtown.
They still don’t think it’s enough people to warrant the upgrade/conversion costs.
They have been adding bus only lanes between downtown and that area though including in town and on the highway, but they’ve maybe only connected half the highway with bus only. That has been helping, and more frequent busses on it.
Depends on population density. Even if there was passenger train service on the existing lines here, a lot of people would need a vehicle to get to the station, and I don’t think public buses / vans could cover all the roads at a reasonable schedule.
But, also, you don’t have to get very dense before public transport is better than individual vehicles for intracity trips.
If public transit was valued by the local government, the city would be built in a way to make that work ok. If cars are valued, the city is built to be driven in.
I could see some very well-meaning folks in local government being boxed in by citizens on one side that make their luxury SUVs and even more luxurious pickup trucks into major parts of their identities, and then the various layers of government above them driving the standards that make all of our towns samey-looking stroads. I’m in the US if that wasn’t obvious, and the car-centrism runs deep.
I’m a middle aged dude and my house was build multiple decades before I was born. Back then my neighborhood was designed 100% for cars. They even put in drainage ditches that precluded the addition of sidewalks. But several years back the township did paint a walking path down one side of my street.
The new neighborhoods built in the last decade are mostly the same as far as being car-only. They usually have sidewalks and you will see people taking walks or children playing. But it’s only local recreation, to walk the dog or to visit a neighbor. If you need to go to the grocery store, it’s time to hop into the 2-3 ton family vehicle.
I will give my local government and developers credit though, that some recent projects have been to create what look like islands of walkable community. I have look through the businesses and see if they have groceries and the like. From what I’ve seen the neighborhood seems to be densely packed expensive apartments and townhomes that were rapidly built en masse, and then in the center there’s a grassy field and some breweries and restaurants and stuff. So possibly some very American designs going on there.
I used to live in one of these kind of complexes. It was even next to a river with a nice little 2 mile trail along it. At first I thought it would be cool to live within a short walk of things. There was a convenience store that was quite nice. However, the owner told me that the complex told them they couldn’t sell nicotine products “to keep homeless out”. That shouldve been a red flag. Then the convenience store closed in favor of a fancy coffee shop. Then a fancy German restaurant with outdoor seating. Suddenly I felt like I lived in an outdoor mall. The site for that apartment complex was previously used for the states death row so I guess it’s still an improvement from that.
eww, yeah I can see that happening and a lot of people liking it too.
Even though our suburban neighborhoods are designed to be pro-car and anti-community, the one nice thing about the single family home and little fenced in yard setup is that I can keep some natural beauty close by.
I agree, by the time you really deserve the term “city” you should provide public transit as a community good and it can be made so that most people want to use it.
I’m in the “city” of Cove, Arkansas. It’s a 15 minute drive to the nearest produce section, and I have to work remotely because there aren’t computer programmer jobs within a reasonable commute.
At low densities, EVs are the way to go. The more dense, the more public transit makes sense.
I do still wish passenger rail service was restored along the line through here to the county seat; there are days it would save me a drive.
BIKE. BIKE TO THE TRAIN STATION
It also solves the problem at the other end where I’m 4 miles from my office.
Trains don’t make it easy to get bikes on but that’s easily resolved also
Yup. Here in Chicago we now have bike racks inside the trains so you can bring your bike into the city on the metra, as well as allowed in all trains including the colored lines outside of peak hours
You can not bike the roads where I live. Also, there is no bus station or train station to bike to.
Sounds like a problem that needs solving.
While a lot of people can, some live far away, or have small kids, or the weather doesn’t allow it, or…
There is no one single solution, every bit helps, and often they help each other.
Small kids doesn’t stop you from biking lmfao. It just changes what setup of bike you need to have.
The only weather that would prevent it is a hurricane and you shouldn’t be driving in one of those either.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to deal with kids. Or worked a job with a dress code.
No, it’s spoken like someone who’s been to the numerous countries where they bike with their kids just fine.
A 5-7 mile commute is doable without being sweaty with the right bike.
Sure, because rain and snow don’t exist.
Raincoats exist man. Rain bubbles exist. It’s a solved problem. Snow just isn’t that hard
There’s weather I would prefer a house over a tent. Similarly there’s weather I would drive in that I wouldn’t bike in (even with a raincoat).
If you can’t stand the slightest inconvenience to yourself for a better world, the world will never improve.
I think distance is a pretty good reason not to. Just not wanting to is a fair excuse too, honestly. A car is convenient.
That said, at the point where the weather prohibits going by bicycle, in my experience at least, you generally just don’t go anywhere because it’d be perilous in a car as well. I recall when I visited Kiruna some years ago, other than the cars, most people I saw were getting around on kicksleds and bicycles. Even saw a couple of dog sleds.
As for kids, what I’ve generally seen here are three options; chariots (can usually hold up to two kids), parcel shelf seats (one child), or the kid bikes themselves. I was taught to ride a bicycle at three, and at seven I biked to and from school on my own.
Granted, in the U.S. I can see this not happening on account of everything being so bloody spread out that you need a car, and even if you did put up with the distance, the infrastructure isn’t there; you can’t go on the motorway with a bicycle. Urban planning over in the states is abysmal.
Overall agree. The weather I had in mind was mainly rain, super hard to avoid when biking, a non issue in a car. Wind can be unpleasant as well.
Also, local bus that runs on the train timetable. Brings people to and from the train as well as the shops. Ideal.
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains.
I, personally, could bike or walk because the station would be particularly close to my residence. But, there are others in the county where to get to the closest station they’d be biking much further than they are currently healthy enough to accomplish.
Bikes are not a good option at this density either.
Raincoats! I have a nice yellow raincoat that folds up and inverts into its own pocket, turning into a little square you can tuck away in a bag or something. It’s super convenient.
Okay but what if I’m sopping wet with sweat from the heat and I also smell bad now.
Unless the general stink of the any large concentration of humans will overpower it.
If only science could devise some sort of way to keep you dry in the rain. One day, perhaps
A car does it pretty well!
Caring about convenience over the environment and health is exactly the problem. They’ll get healthy enough.
This is a very ablist view.
Ablest is when pro environment . Yeah no. It’s easy to create exceptions for the small portion of the population who is fully incapable of biking. Less car dependency will allow those who can’t drive to get around far more safely, actually leading to more mobility for people with issues like legal blindness that prevent them from driving but not prevent them from other multimodal forms of transit
“They’ll get healthy enough” is an albist view, no matter what else you might believe in.
It’s strictly true. It’s not ablest. The overwhelming majority of those who cannot have no serious underlying reason as to why not
We’ve been trying to get a LRT in a 400k population area for decades and can’t make it happen. There’s even an old unused rail line with right of way all the way from the biggest nearby municipality that causes all the traffic problems to downtown.
They still don’t think it’s enough people to warrant the upgrade/conversion costs.
They have been adding bus only lanes between downtown and that area though including in town and on the highway, but they’ve maybe only connected half the highway with bus only. That has been helping, and more frequent busses on it.
That plenty of people! There’s probably only 30k in my entire county.
I think part of the concern is ridership outside work commutes, but I think it’s more if you build it they will come kinda thing.
But something like this doesn’t need to be profitable. It can be a service. Need to get away from the thought that it all has to be profitable.
A universal building exemption would push a lot of things in the right direction