It has come to my attention that there is some minor unrest on Hexbear due to statements they believe I made that they did not appreciate. there has been some small misunderstanding regarding them, so allow me, dear reader, to make my position clear so these terrible rumors can be put to rest.
some time ago, another user on our matrix asked for tips on trolling Hexbear in their communities. specifically, they asked what might be said that would garner the most rage. as I generally consider myself to be the obliging sort, I offered what pearls of wisdom I could.
now, a thoughtful reader might wonder why I didn’t react with abject horror at the idea of someone trolling Hexbear, for that, I can only say that perhaps I thought it was proper comuppence for the brigading and harassment Hexbear used to perpetrate across the fediverse.
but I digress. the specific pearls of wisdom I offered were as such.
le gasp! how terrible! what scoundrel, what worthless cur would say that the soviet civilians deserved such a fate! genocide! fascist! liberal!
as you might have guess, discerning reader, Hexbear posits that such a scoundrel is me. they insist, that by saying the soviets deserved what they got, that I am actively supporting the genocide of twenty-seven million civilians. there are two problems with this, however.
one, I never said civilians. this is a word put into my mouth by tankies that are too fucking stupid to understand plain english. one would think that it is pretty obvious that it wasn’t some poor farmer that was invading Poland for profit, but if one were to think such, then one wouldn’t be a braindead tankie shitstain, and would instead be someone at least capable of the level of higher thought that evolution gave a jellyfish. it’s pretty obvious to normal people that the ones gleefully invading other countries alongside the nazis were, in fact, soldiers. here they were at least right when they assumed I was gleefully celebrating the deaths of those soldiers. they fought with the nazis, they invaded other countries, and they don’t get to absolve themselves of working with the nazis just because hitler turned on them, and tankies think that the country that supposedly single-handily fought and won WW2 are also the poor victims of the war, who had no choice in their actions.
two, there were no soviet civilians, merely innocent asian/eastern european souls that were held hostage by the soviet oligarchy and forced into starvation and destitution by an authoritarian system that valued propaganda more than human beings. the vast majority of those people probably would not have chosen to live in a dystopian hellhole were they given a chance, any more than the average North Korean wants to starve to death under the Kims. they were as much soviets as you or I, merely people with no freedom, and no other option but to live under the crushing boot of the imperialist USSR. they didn’t help the nazis, because they were powerless in the face of the state.
neither of these two points has stopped Hexbear from whipping themselves into a frothing echo chamber of self-righteous disgust and anger, and demanding that I be removed from my mod positions and banned. a demand which has, so far, fallen on deaf ears that are used to the utter bullshit so often spewed by these feckless internet warriors. if there was an award for arguing in bad faith, we all know the reeking denizens of the lower planes we all colloquially call The Triad would win it.
as you probably have gathered by now, this is not an apology. I did not do anything wrong, especially not what they have accused me of, and so I will not apologize for it. not that they would be willing to consider such an apology anyway, because for them there is only one truth, and that is that they are always right, and everyone who is not them is an enemy and always wrong.
now, they have banned me, and so they can’t see this, so I will instead tag @cowbee@lemmy.ml, a known affiliate of these heathens, who spent three paragraphs the other day downplaying the persecution of LGBT+ in the USSR before grudgingly using a mere two sentences in admitting the treatment.
my one regret, of course, is that since I have now blocked everyone from The Triad, I won’t be able to read the no doubt angry replies they are fiercely typing out, in which they’ll likely pour over my history to try and find something they can spin as damning evidence to back up their preconceptions. actually, now that I consider it, I find I don’t regret that at all.
in conclusion, I want to say thank you to the comrades that have supported me through these almost trying times, fuck you to the haters who want to be me, and thank you to the haters who made the thread about me on c/Slop like I asked. you’re the real MVP!
I ain’t reading all that. Anyways, free Palestine.
First three paragraphs of ‘greetings m’lady’ had me out. I don’t know what the fuck he did but this nerd is guilty
My only thought on this: lol, lmao even
Pretty new here so I dont really have the context, but I think I got the gist from comments and unfortunately read the whole post (save yourself)
Fuck whoever this self-important assweasel is. Their mastubatory prose is worthless.
Sometimes I like seeing the comments to posts like this though to hear the counter propaganda and get myself educated on things I may not have known. Like Awoo’s post below.
But ya, the original post is just so self-indulgent.
Agreed, the comments are doing the work of saints for the mal-up to speed
And without a doubt this op is some fart huffing to an expert degree
there were no soviet civilians
Is crazier than anything said before.
Zionists say the same thing about Palestinians. Dehumanizing nazi shit.
It is an actual Nazi “total war” talking point. Re: WWII, it was a sentiment shared by US leadership regarding Japanese civilians and was used to justify firebombing and nuking population centers.
I don’t feel bad for the soviet solders any more than I feel bad for the russian soldiers in ukraine right now. they choose to be there by not surrendering or turning on their officers. if they get wiped out to the last man, that’s on them. they deserve what they’re getting for invading another country, the same way the US deserved what it got in iraq and afganistan.
“If the Red Army wanted my sympathy, they simply should’ve laid down their weapons and let the Nazis expand and genocide to their hearts content. I AM A PRINCIPLED ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN!”
Deeply unserious person.
This is the perfect example of someone who has had their brain just completely destroyed by the radlib “anti-tankie” internet. Holy shit.
And db0 admin still blaming hexbear for it 🙃
I’m preemptively voting to defederated. All the cool dbzero people should just make hb or .ml accounts fuck db0 admins and mods.
Looking at the other thread where the person trolling acknowledged it was a shit move, the db0 admins brush off the person encouraging others to troll hexbear as well that person is just a provocative person, that’s their thing and we understand it
I’m inclined to agree, they’re literally saying the Red Army should have rolled over and allowed the fucking nazis to genocide tens of millions of people. It’s genuinely the most fucked up thing I’ve ever seen from any “anti-tankie” who wasn’t a self-described neo-nazi.
It’s straight up fascism of the worst kind, and this supposedly “anarchist” instance seemingly has no problem with it? What the fuck.
Kropotkin rolling in his fuckin grave.
And how
I thought relations had improved but it was another terrible look for db0 and that instance. Even stranger considering the instigator only using anarchist nexus instance account now
They seem to be heavily conflating the numbers of soldiers who died in Poland (which was barley an invasion from the Russian side, as someone else said, not many people people died. They basically just moved in to increase their defensive line after Nazis took half the place) and the number of soldiers who died in the Eastern Front, which was mostly defensive.
He got mogged on so bad he’s still seething for being called out as a manipulative genocidal worm
First of all, deeply unserious.
But this was pretty funny:
the vast majority of those people probably would not have chosen to live in a dystopian hellhole were they given a chance
guess the odds weren’t as good as they thought
the vast majority of those people probably would not have chosen to live in a dystopian hellhole were they given a chance
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink (that evil tankie kool aid)
They were right though? Only 28% of people voted for dystopian hellhole
it is pretty obvious that it wasn’t some poor farmer that was invading Poland for profit, but if one were to think such, then one wouldn’t be a braindead tankie shitstain
Ok, ignoring the fact that they didn’t invade Poland, the nazis invaded Poland, kicked the government out, and the Soviets walked into an otherwise completely ungoverned territory with literally no opposition, which is why the nazis suffered 40,000 deaths invading yet the Soviets had like 3000.
Ignoring that obviously ahistorical representation of what happened and returning to the “wasn’t some poor farmer” - What the fuck do you think a conscription army is? Yes, it actually was some poor farmer.
two, there were no soviet civilians, merely innocent asian/eastern european souls that were held hostage by the soviet oligarchy
If you’re claiming the Soviets were an oligarchy then we need to have a chat about what exactly you think Poland was at the time.
forced into starvation and destitution by an authoritarian system that valued propaganda more than human beings
Standard of living drastically improved under the soviets, in fact, no civilisation in all of human history can boast the progress and improvements the soviets achieved in the timeframe that they achieved them. The soviet union began as a feudal backwater using Ox to plough fields and within 30 years it put the first man in space. THIRTY YEARS. Seriously think about that, because there are infrastructure projects currently ongoing in the US that have taken longer than this amount of time to undertake.
the vast majority of those people probably would not have chosen to live in a dystopian hellhole were they given a chance
Implying that it wasn’t a dystopian hellhole under the Tsars is laughable. They were living through the greatest and fastest improvements any civilisation lived through in all of human history. The hellhole they lived in beforehand was very much not preferable, the soviet union was very much preferable.
they were as much soviets as you or I, merely people with no freedom, and no other option but to live under the crushing boot of the imperialist USSR
Liberals read a book about imperialism challenge. You don’t understand the word and consistently use it incorrectly.
if there was an award for arguing in bad faith, we all know the reeking denizens of the lower planes we all colloquially call The Triad would win it.
You can not consistently repeat the myth that the soviets were helping the nazis and then claim your opposition are the ones arguing in bad faith. It’s just not true.
a known affiliate of these heathens
You are outing yourself with this word my crypto nazi little friend.
Standard of living drastically improved under the soviets
For reference, by account of Anna Louise Strong, between 1913 and 1929 (pre-war year and post-war recovery year), death rates in rural Russia halved. That’s without any new technology, just by virtue of redistribution of existing wealth.
The USSR is historically the single greatest improvement to any civilisation that has ever occurred in such a short time frame. And that’s INCLUDING ww2 dragging it down.
Soviets walked into an otherwise completely ungoverned territory with literally no opposition
Funnily enough Polish government before they ran away issued explicit order to not shoot Soviet troops. Even those homebrew fascists clearly knew the difference between both sides. They also never declared any state of war between Polish govt in London and USSR and went to negotiating table in 1943 (greatly upsetting Churchill). Polish London PM Sikorski was even possibly assassinated by the British for that (or died in accident in very convenient for Brits moment), and only after his death the relations went into nowhere, until communists established PKWN in 1944.
Funnily enough Polish government before they ran away issued explicit order to not shoot Soviet troops.
This is new to me, do you have a good source for it? It’s the strongest evidence in cutting through this bullshit if you do. I have a hobby of searching for “ribbentrop” on social media every now and then and picking fights with the recent people bringing it up.
Here is pretty good recapitulation, even better because it is clearly written from anticommunist position and criticise commander-in-chief Rydz-Śmigły for that directive (sadly it also peddle bullshit about "extermination of Polish people in USSR and so on). It’s also pretty damning for western “allies” who wanted to just use Polish army as cannon fodder.
It’s also even in wiki page for Edward Rydz Śmigły:
This strategy was further crippled when Soviet forces invaded Poland from the east on 17 September. Realizing that mounting a defence against both Germany and the USSR was impossible, Śmigły-Rydz issued orders to his forces to begin a retreat towards Romania and to not waste men on fighting the Soviet aggressors.
ŻOŁNIERZE!
Najazd bolszewicki na Polskę nastąpił w czasie wykonywania przez nasze wojska manewru, którego celem było skoncentrowanie się w południowo-wschodniej części Polski tak, by mając dla otrzymywania zaopatrzenia i materiału wojennego komunikację i łączność przez Rumunię z Francją i Anglią móc dalej prowadzić wojnę.
Najazd bolszewicki uniemożliwił wykonanie tego planu.
Wszystkie nasze wojska zdolne do walki były związane działaniem przeciw Niemcom. Uważałem, że w tej sytuacji obowiązkiem moim jest uniknąć bezcelowego przelewu krwi w walce z bolszewikami i ratować to, co się da uratować. Strzały oddane przez K.O.P. do bolszewików przekraczających granicę stwierdziły, że nie oddajemy naszego terytorium dobrowolnie. A ponieważ w pierwszym dniu bolszewicy do naszych oddziałów nie strzelali, ani też ich nie rozbrajali, więc sądziłem, że możliwe będzie przez pewien czas wycofać dość dużo wojska na terytorium Węgier i Rumunii.
A chciałem to zrobić w tym celu, by móc Was następnie przewieźć do Francji i tam organizować Armię Polską. Chodziło mi o to, by polski żołnierz brał w dalszym ciągu udział w wojnie i by przy zwycięskim zakończeniu wojny istniała Armia Polska, która by reprezentowała Polskę i Jej interesy.
O tym najważniejszym dziś celu musicie pamiętać.
Choćby warunki Waszego życia były najcięższe, musicie przetrwać, nie zapominając, że jesteście żołnierzami, których obowiązuje dyscyplina i honor żołnierski. Ci którzy ulegając słabości ducha, albo podszeptom obcych agentów, sieją wśród Was zwątpienie i chcą w Wasze szeregi wprowadzić rozprężenie – ci ludzie są na usługach wroga.
Trzeba zacisnąć zęby i przetrwać. Położenie się zmieni, wojna jeszcze trwa.
Będziecie jeszcze bić się za Polskę i wrócicie do Polski przynosząc Jej zwycięstwo.
Naczelny Wódz
(-) ŚMIGŁY-RYDZ
Marszałek Polski
Interesting, I would prefer a more academic source, one which is more clinical in not offering opinion of the events so that libs I speak to aren’t misguided by the anticommunist bs.
“The Soviets stepped in. I order a general withdrawal to Romania and Hungary on the shortest routes. Do not fight the Bolsheviks, except in the event of an attack on their part or an attempt to disarm the troops. The task of Warsaw and the cities that were to defend themselves against Germany – unchanged. The cities to which the Bolsheviks approach should negotiate with them on the exit of garrisons to Hungary or Romania.”
There’s absolutely no reason you would give this order except in the circumstances where you’re interpreting it as “We’re happy that they’re stepping into the east, this gives us room to get the country back later”. This of course was exactly the correct order to give by the Polish commander. Letting the Soviets into the east ultimately preserved the future of Poland existing at all.
and about the extermination of the Polish population in the USSR.
What the fuck are they talking about lol, even most anticommunists never say this shit, preferring to attack from the direction of AFTER Poland was taken.
I guess it’s about useful angle for proving even rabid anticommunists do not negate that this order was issued.
A propos rabid anticommunists, in 1944 year Warsaw Uprising was the most significant part of Operation “Burza” (Tempest), which was, as Polish anticommunist general Anders said “aimed militarily against Germans, politically against Soviets and really against Poles”, openly accusing command of AK of extreme incompetence and bad will. And even those people with “Bór” Komorowski at the top, much more anticommunist than both Rydz Śmigły and even the Polish govt in London, still ordered AK forces, even those who succeeded at their parts of operation, to not shoot at advancing Soviet troops, which ended with Soviets disarming AK with no bloodshed.
About the academic sources, the second link source it to the sourcebook, though i was slightly mistaken, the quoted text is not the 17.09 order, it’s 20.09 recapitulation proclaimed already in Romania, but it don’t deny the order.
According to the Katyń museum, another ultrabiased anticommunist place, the 17.09 order was short and straightforward:
> Z bolszewikami nie walczyć, chyba w razie natarcia z ich strony albo próby rozbrojenia oddziałów
Basically no one in Poland ever denied this order existed, though the anticommunist call him fool or even traitor over it because they would love nothing more than as many as possible Polish dead to justify their relentless hostility to USSR which right now is made solely of Goebbels propaganda and postwar pogromist defense.
The anticommunist claims are obviously ridiculous. This order only makes sense from the intepretation that the Marshall saw it as a useful benefit to Poland. The soviets weren’t going to destroy Poland, and it meant a section of the country would be saved from the monstrosity the nazis would carry out. It makes absolutely no sense to give this order if you’re interpreting the soviets as horrible invaders and conquerors or an existential threat. None of the explanations against it make any sense either, all simply pointing towards him having lost his mind or become “confused” at the time. Clearly they are grasping to explain it away and maintain the anticommunist position.
This should be the starting point from which communists chip away at this whole topic, it is the weakest link in the entire thing. It probably won’t work with Polish who have been put through school education drilling in the anticommunism but it will work with international liberals that keep shouting about ribbentrop.
It probably won’t work with Polish who have been put through school education drilling in the anticommunism but it will work with international liberals that keep shouting about ribbentrop.
Yeah, in Poland Communism = or worse than nazism is dogma to the point that i usually can’t get even basic recognition to the obvious argument like this or even that 20 something thousands of government enforcers* is nowhere near as bad as 6 million genocide, they either start namecalling or go into sudden absolute pacifism or in case of ordinary “non political” people just shrug.
*I’m rarily even challenging the official narratives about Katyń because it’s the most dogmatic dogma possible, the cornerstone of anticommunism in Poland, they went to the point they completely hushed even the fact that alternative theories exist.
@Cowbee@hexbear.net holy shit comrade saying you have the patience of a saint would be one of the greatest understatements in the entire history of humans having language.
Oh shit, looks like people found the post anyways, lmao. I appreciate it comrade, but most of all it just really rubbed me the wrong way when cryptagion just treated me like a messenger boy to pull me down into his self-destructive spiraling. I’ve already debunked him numerous times elsewhere, people have already seen that.
I haven’t seen the original post yet. Do they just ignore your answers or what?
Like in this in this comment he criticizes the USSR for backwards views of LGBTQ issues while completely ignoring your comments on the context of the time and comparisons and contrasts with other countries, like the US and UK, or Cuba. It’s insane, it’s like he didn’t even read it, his eyes just glazed over it to pick out one individual partially conceded point without reading any evidence or argumentation on everything else.
Was it just like that every time ?
Yea, he just never responded to that comment except via this post.
He obliquely references a comment I made, about the “Polish farmer,” completely not retaining things I explicitly said in that very sentence let alone understanding the significance of it, so I think your guess is solid.
Cowbee needs so many medals for their patience and work on explaining to angry people
Cowbee wearing a regular shirt with all their medals on it:
Thanks comrade!
This person is insufferable and if the instance protects them then we probably shouldn’t be federated with them.
It shoots beyond genocide denial into genocide enthusiasm
Yeah, I didn’t realize the main admins were just going to directly go to bat for them under the banner of being “critical of the USSR”.
It’s a tough one because I’ve seen some good members of dbzero in here. This one is just particularly insufferable.
Yeah plenty of the users seem cool. But if they stick around on an instance run by someone (and named after someone) who actively defends shit like this I’m less sure
They should just come here tbh
If dbzero doesn’t eject this loser the whole instance is worthless
free palestine
help why do they have an emoji counting down to the pig balls thingy?
lol
The antici…
ppbation
The writing style tells you this is the most annoying person you’ve ever met. The only comment is telling them to shut the fuck up with 4 times the upvotes lmao.
i bet somebody engineered a LLM to maximize annoyingness.
I’m only half kidding lmao
There are, sadly, other comments. It’s just that the OP link leads directly to that comment.
Most of them are along the lines of “Oh my god, who the hell cares?” though there is the ine that says “YTA”
“Oh my god, who the hell cares?”
Can’t really blame them, I could barely get through two sentences of the post body.
This is the most
liberalfascist an ‘anarchist’ can get. Even IF you say that the USSR is “literally 1984 dystopia” you can NOT ignore the fact that soldiers and civilians were slaughtered by the Nazis, even if Stalin supposedly collaborated with them, you CANNOT assume that every soldier, civilian even agreed with it, much less “gleefully invading” these countries.Why would you even celebrate that?! Would you be happy if any French, British or Polish died just because their government signed treaties with Hitler…?
Hate the USSR all you want, but YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME EMPATHY FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND SLAUGHTERED DUE TO FASCISM.
“Haha look I upset Hexbear by saying nazi shit”
look how upset they get when I do stupid stuff, wait why is my instance hating me now???
I really think you’re being generous with “liberal”, I don’t think most liberals would actually say the things this user did.
Yeah that’s… that’s still bad. Also, don’t they realize that the USSR significantly expanded its army AFTER the Nazi invasion? So people got into the Red Army to defend their homes, and weren’t even involved much in the pre-invasion occupations (Eastern Poland, Baltics, Finland, and Romania)
Edit: As for liberals, I might have misused it a bit, and should’ve probably just used fascist but eh, I’ll just go and strikethrough it to put context
I edited my comment to remove most of what you’re replying to, but yes, I agree that saying “I only meant the soldiers” doesn’t make the statements meaningfully different.
And if the claim is “oh I only meant the soldiers that occupied Poland”, then that’s still not good if you understand what happened and I don’t actually believe that this user thought 27 million soldiers were involved in occupying Poland, or that the Nazi war machine differentiated between the few soldiers who were in Poland vs. the millions of soldiers and civilians they killed. No matter what, it’s just indistinguishable from something a fascist would say.
All this walking back is only after backlash, and includes no apology or self-reflection. The original statement was that the Soviets weren’t real victims of WW2, doubling down repeatedly when called out. Based on past posts here about that user, this isn’t the first time they’ve made this argument. I’m inclined to just take what they said at face value, rather than all this “no, actually, I’m not a Nazi but I’m not sorry for saying Nazi shit” that came after.
As for liberals, I might have misused it a bit, and should’ve probably just used fascist
db0 tolerates genocide denial/celebration and baiting but removes comments like mine where they describe it as such. This user remains a mod of several comms there.
I think their admins support this. They’d rather protect a fan of “anti-tankie” genocide from someone who declares themselves a member of their in-group than allow criticism of that person’s actions from someone in an out-group. What they tolerate and don’t is quite revealing.
Notice that at least one admin is in that thread and rather than even criticize this pro-genocide bait they instead argue with Cowbee.
Yeah that’s the thing, these people’s entire “politics” begin and end with being “anti-tankie”. There’s literally nothing more to it.
