There’s a clear campaign against the mentally ill with the global rise of fascism. Lots of it shows up in anti homeless rhetoric, but you can see it in the MAHA and anti vaccination movements.
There’s no reason to use the word “r-tarded” to describe someone. As someone who’s worked with the intellectually challenged, it’s an insult to them to compare them with people who are willfully ignorant.
I don’t think intellectually challenged individuals deserve cruelty, nor do I believe anyone does. However, this is the first argument that popped into my head, and I want to genuinely discuss this. Again, I do NOT agree that the intellectually challenged are deserving of discrimination. This is for the purpose of discussion.
If being intellectually challenged isn’t worthy of discrimination, why feel insulted when called retarded?
Ironically, the term “mental retardation” was introduced by medical and educational professionals as a less derogatory and more objective replacement for older, highly stigmatizing terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile, which themselves were previous medical classifications.
I think about this a lot. I feel like it essentially means the middle school bullies of today drive the slurs of tomorrow.
OP, I just gotta say, I really agree with you, and I find it really disgusting the amount of people in this thread trying to renormalize it or argue that it’s not problematic. This thread has been one of, if not the, most frustrating threads here over the past two years. Like I’m genuinely feeling gaslit by some of these comments. Do people not remember the voice people would use? Do people not remember the motions people would do? Those weren’t just a mild way to call someone stupid. It was always ableist and still is today. Maybe in five to ten years I’ll feel differently, like language really has moved on, but it doesn’t feel like that’s what’s happening. It feels like people just being more comfortable being edgy.
other people don’t agree with you.
why do you find that so problematic? why do you feel your thoughts/feelings on this are superior such that other people should subordinate their beliefs and feelings to your own? is your moral authority over language use superior to other people’s?
Does that mean if I’m autistic I get an R- word pass?
I thought it was widely accepted that you shouldn’t use this word outside of, like, quoting old medical diagnosis from when the word was used in that context. It is not an okay insult.
Maybe I just hang out with nicer people.
+1
Maybe y’all haven’t experienced it as a slur. I grew up around jerks that did, and it leaves a nasty taste. I’ve caught myself using it, and felt awful afterwards.
OP, fuck these people.
Anyone who thinks that words mean nothing and that historical context is irrelevant are probably people who have never been on the receiving end of these words being used to dehumanize them.
And all of you people, would you also use:
- n igger
- f aggot
- sand n igger
- ching chong
Or did any of those make you feel wrong? Maybe you don’t actually think that slurs should be used but instead don’t realize the impact of r etard as opposed to whatever made you uncomfortable in that list.
they made me laugh
you forgot the ding dong at the end of ching chong, btw.
Lol you fucking spastic - can’t say that, its offensive
Are you retarded - can’t say that, its offensive
Damn bro, you mentally disabled?
This will continue onward, to think otherwise is retarded.
I never really understood the difference between insults and slurs. Somebody said that slurs target groups of people and imply that just being in the group is bad. That explanation works for ethnic/racial slurs or the ones regarding gender/sexualities.
But to me “retarded” is not specifically tied to a group. It’s not mainly used for people who are disabled or neurodivergent for example. As far as I’m concerned it’s the same as calling someone a moron or incredibly stupid.
it’s historical and cultural context.
hence why words that were once common place, become seen as heinous.
but it’s not like words are the only thing for which this is true. just look at say, attitudes towards sex.
and the moralists about sex/words will argue that everyone else should do/believe what they do, or they are bad people.
Quite the imaginary slippery slope you made up there.
What would one call a person that is willfully uneducated, ignorant, bigoted, makes bad-faith arguments and acts foolishly, without using “ableist language”?
If my intention is to offend that person?
I just call 'em Maga.
The R word means non of what you said.
Dumbass, asshole, giant turd, negative iq, dumber than a turd, smooth brained, piece of shit, fuck face, etc.
Get creative, no need to insult innocent people by using slurs.
This is no different than calling someone the N word, and I’m sure that while some people use the N word as an insult, you probably don’t, right?
That makes no sense.
“dumb” and “negative iq” - that’s the same “ableist language” that “retard” is.
Not all “dumb” or “low iq” people are evil, I am not trying to drag them into this.
And “piece of shit” or “fuck face” does not address the “uneducated” part.
Historical context matters.
N igger came from the word Negro which just means black, but slavery and abuse of black people has changed the context of the word.
Dumb and negative iq do not have the same historical context as R etard.
“IQ” is most literally where it came from. Together with “moron”, “imbecile”, “idiot”
Since we all agree that IQ is not an actual quantification of intelligence those words are now used as means to attempt to offend someone, without relation to their medical history or mental aptitude.
And “piece of shit” or “fuck face” does not address the “uneducated” part.
Simple solution: Just add “uneducated” to the front of either phrase.
Many of “fuck faces” have degrees, so singling it out isn’t effective.
Then don’t add it for those fuck faces, numbnut. 🤦♂️
Cool, let me collect the educational background of each fuckface I want to offend. Genius.
Jesus christ, use your natural intelligence people, for once.
You said want to offend them, it shouldn’t matter what’s true or not, right? Use that big brain of yours.
What’s wrong with “uneducated, ignorant, bigoted fool”?
Again, you could use that in an email to the queen or a politician.
I’m not trying to make them laugh, I’m trying to offend them.
Wild how so many people in here can’t seem to offend anyone without using slurs. It really speaks to a lack of skill and creativity. I offend people all the time, sometimes, I even offend people when I’m not even trying to. Get on my level, scrub.
But no, for sure, the only way to call out bigots is to use bigoted terms yourself. Yeah, that’ll show them. Look, it’s not like you want to use slurs, of course not, but using slurs is just the only possible way to call out bigots. Right.
Asshole.
Can you please a comprehensive list of “slurs” that contains their transition from “official medical description” to “slur”? Otherwise a “slur” is an amorphous social construct that is always evolving.
You probably think that “tankie” is a slur, don’t you, tankie?
Otherwise a “slur” is an amorphous social construct that is always evolving.
Yes, obviously? No shit.
You probably think that “tankie” is a slur, don’t you, tankie?
See, you’re doing it! I’m so proud of you! Turns out you can insult people without disparaging marginalized people in the process!
Oh look, the tankie arrives at my initial point, only took you a bit. It is precisely that I “cannot” insult your inability to understand something, without allegedly “disparaging marginalized people”
I’d call you slow, but there are other slow people that are not being dumb, don’t want to disparage them.
Damn, back to the ableist language again. Keep trying! Someday, I’m sure you’ll get it!
Slow in speed. I don’t know why you’re dragging in disabled people into this.
Straight out of the right’s playbook. "Actually, you’re the racist for bringing race into it and assuming I was talking about black people when I said ‘n----.’
Go back to Truth Social.
Moron? Doesn’t hit the same tho. Fuckin moron?
Same as “retard”. Used to be a medical description, now an “ableist slur”.
Same as “stupid”, “idiot” etc. etc.
Wait i can’t use “moron” anymore? That’s retarded
I’m not tone policing. I’m fine wirh using whatever words if their intention does not aim to attack a person of a minority because they’re a part of that minority.
I. E. Retard does not. N-word does.
“willfully uneducated, ignorant, bigoted, makes bad-faith arguments and acts foolishly” all seem like perfectly cromulent words there.
That was not offensive, that was a description.
Have you ever successfully offended a person ever in your life?
Life isn’t just comprised of “strongly worded letters”.
When people call me “r-tarded,” I don’t feel offended. What I’ve noticed, the majority of the time, is that people call me that when they have nothing to back up an argument they made. I just got it from a conservative on Facebook posting a gif in response to something like “are you okay supporting a pedophile?”
More than being insulted, I mostly felt sad for how pathetic the person calling me that.
In general, I don’t see that much point to insulting people? Cool, I can make someone mad because I’m also angry with them, and instead of anyone learning anything we’re all just pissed off now. Some people do need to be told in detail how they are a shitty, bigoted person perhaps, but calling them a “r-tard” doesn’t communicate that.
In general, I don’t see that much point to insulting people? Cool, I can make someone mad because I’m also angry with them, and instead of anyone learning anything we’re all just pissed off now
People have feelings and it is human to vent them out. That’s why swear words exist. I am not plannin to educate wach and every nazi I come across, and I really don’t care whether they’re pissed off or not.
Having intention to offend people is OK, sometimes it kicks-off self-reflection that a politely-worded official statement would not.
I refuse to being tone-policed. I am human.
“Please consider what words you use and whether some may be actively harmful to people you aren’t even trying to insult.”
“I’m being policed!!!”
Nice strawman, can we get back on topic?
Here’s a refresher. You: don’t use “x” to insult
Me: what can I use to insult
You: don’t insultStraw man:
I refuse to being tone-policed.
Here’s an actual insult - imagine going through this many logical contortions to justify not being creative enough to come up with an insult that isn’t harmful to people you aren’t trying to insult.
Not at all
My brother has a mental disability. Not his fault, doctors fucked up ab operation when he was a baby and he came out severely damaged. He has the intellectual level do about a 13 year old, but he mostly lives independently, he got his drivers license in a country where many people with full brain capacities cannot. Doctors told my mom after the operation to just dump him in some institution, because he’d never even talk. She told them to go fuck themselves.
I’m fucking proud of him (and my mom), because with severe limitations he really got himself ahead. I see him as a fucking genius.
Then there are retards like Elon musk who do have a full brain with full abilities but somehow fail to even surpass what my brother wasn’t supposed to be able to do, yet by brother does it, these people do
I call people removed when they are supposed to be better but just chose to be lazy or not caring or just behave removed.
Is an insult against people who are supposed to be smart but behave like they have a mental disability, and I stand by that.
If you feel offended, the that is on you.
This is my stance on the word.
We use it regularly in engineering for this exact definition. Mentally disabled people typically operate in the best version of themselves nearly all the time (minus bad days, we all have em)
But people who have the potential to operate at their full capacity but choose not to are the very definition of the word.
I will definitely think it while standing in line behind someone for 15 minutes at a coffee shop who don’t decide to even look at the menu until the cashier gets to them.
But I still don’t say it, as intention and perception are competely unrelated.
I’d also add “you dumb fucker” hits about the same, without the fallout of “the R word”
I guess that’s the part about people and taboo words I don’t understand. A little fun flex in vocabulary can transmit the same sentiment without impacting others.
Tactical strike, not full fallout.
I call people removed
Is lemmy.ca doing the same censorship billshit as .ml? SMH …
When you stop being offended by letters on a page and direct that hate towards the individuals that use the word as a slur or out of context on purpose, you’ll be a lot happier.
Do you also use the N word? Would you feel comfortable using that as an insult?
I’m not offended by “faggot” because of its shape, I’m offended by it because it takes me back to when Meathead John crushed my throat in the playground calling me it until I would ask him to beat up the boy i liked instead.
Words represent, communicate and are something. Humans have for the entirety of their use of language, understood that the signifier and the signified are interchangeable.
sucks for you.
my dad used to beat me and call be f-word all the time. but i 100% don’t see any issue with other people using it.
not everyone who experiences the same things as you comes to the same conclusions you do. post-structuralist theory isn’t really so hot these days, but you seem to have referenced it as authoritative to your belief in controlling words.
This is a good post with some interesting conversation and points that came up because of it. Good job.
Retarded is a word that is now used exclusively to talk about people who are not mentally ill acting like dumb fucking cunts. Like, its totally retarded to see people getting upset at Trump being called a retard… If you hear the word, and you think about actual disabled people. Thats a you thing. Cos I promise you, no one else is.
No one is looking at this, and thinking that anyone else, but Trump, is a fucking retard.
It’s like that South Park episode with the bikers.
77 million votes, and he’s the retard?
Yes, America has a retard problem. Theres at least 77 million of them…
Well, no, Trump was specifically mimicking a specific reporter with a congenital joint condition in that image. So I don’t really get why you don’t think that’s Trump not being disparaging. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34930042
I think you need to read what I wrote again, Chief. Cos I never made that claim.
Retarded is a word that is now used exclusively to talk about people who are not mentally ill acting like dumb fucking cunts. Like, its totally retarded to see people getting upset at Trump being called a retard… If you hear the word, and you think about actual disabled people. Thats a you thing. Cos I promise you, no one else is.
No one is looking at this, and thinking that anyone else, but Trump, is a fucking retard.
Trump didn’t call anyone ”stupid” when he did that. Nor did he even use that word you said he did. He was imitating someone with a disability.
Now, the poor guy, you’ve got to see this guy: ‘Uhh, I don’t know what I said. Uhh, I don’t remember,’ he’s going like ‘I don’t remember. Maybe that’s what I said’
The reporter he’s talking about:
Again, you need to read what I wrote again. Because I didnt say what you are saying I said.
Again, Trump wasn’t even using the word this thread is about in that picture but he was mimicking someone with a disability so I don’t see what point you’re even trying to make.
context is important. when I call my friend steph a “stupid bitch”, we both know she’s not “stupid” nor a “bitch”.
when I call a political leader retarded, I mean it in a derogatory way. a slur. in all the negative meanings as possible.
when I call a neurotypical person retarded, I mean it in the same way.
however, important context, it is never acceptable to use the word to describe someone who is intellectually challenged. it’s not their fault, and they have zero control over their situation.
I think it’s actually offensive to even compare intellectually challenged people to the word even.
I believe the word has purpose in the lexicon still, and that is describe the willfully ignorant in a visceral way that they are forced to take offense to it.
words can have more than one meaning. if it’s not directed at you or used to discriminate against you, it should be perfectly acceptable to use words to describe.
this zero tolerance and censorship of words never ended well in history only because it’s a constant battle of drawing lines in sand.
I know I’ll probably get banned for this comment, but I still think I deserve to speak my opinion on this. you don’t have to agree or disagree, I just want people to think for themselves and not fall into a dark pattern of censorship.
it’s an entirely reasonable take. but context is hard for people and they fail to understand that other people are not them, and get very angry with other people don’t behave the way they think they should.
I agree. Often there is a better insult to use against someone who is being idiotic that’s not also disparaging to an unrelated group.
