Yes. As I was saying elsewhere, he’s a journalist reporting on tech which includes scams, so of course he did actually used a real card to test, otherwise he’d be speculating rather than investigating.

And we’d probably not be hearing about this.

He’s a journalist reporting on tech which includes scams, of course he did otherwise he’d be speculating rather than investigating.

And we’d probably not be hearing about this.

We live in dynamic environments of complex interacting relationships, in case you hadn’t realised, so outcomes are not binary.

The guy is a notorious rhetorical shitmuffin.

He just strings fallacies together and his crowd along.

This video analysing that is pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdOamPIRGY

It makes them part of the cultural Zeitgeist. And when they are already famous, it maintains their currency in that regard.

Why isn’t it the people who didn’t vote for Stein? The reasoning works the same.

At the end of the day, you are a hair away from “anyone who didn’t vote from my preferred candidate sucks”. But guess that’s a lot more obvious when you are from a country that isn’t entirely a two party system.

Thank you for this :')

And remember kids, protectionism is bad (except for when we do it).

And how inconfortable it makes that other people think this is desirable, especially people in positions of power.

The reason you have sweeping fascist rule in your country is because you have tonnes of people who are okay with that.

Seriously, you can blame those that didn’t vote as much as you want, but you’re just averting your eyes from the real problem, as far as I can tell.

I’m not from the US mate. I’m just pointing out pretty obvious issues that maybe are easier to see from the outside.

But saying that if one didn’t vote one voted for this is simply nonsensical. So people who didn’t vote for Biden voted for Biden? Or did they vote for Stein? This is just playing with numbers and wishful thinking, conditioned by a two party system.

Also, I don’t think it really matters, but I have voted in recent national elections to try and stop the shitbirds from getting to power where I can vote. (They got to power.) But I respect those who refuse to vote, or can’t because the system is messed up and biased against them (voting on a Tuesday? How do you accept that shit?). You can’t realistically blame people for not voting if you system doesn’t even properly represent the “none of the above” option. That’s just a messed up voting system.

Also if you think that’s a “wall of text”, I’m slightly concerned.

But how does voting protect in any way against your supreme court being stuffed with judges who clearly have no problems being completely biased and using the court as a tool for partisan politics?

It doesn’t. You’d need an opposition party that actually fights that crap. That recognises tactics to pervert instituions for what they are and acts accordingly. You’d need different “checks and balances”.

Electoralism breaks down when you don’t have a healthy democracy and public institutions. We can now all see that the USA’s institutions and constitution were not as strong as they were made to be.

Your political system is so fucked up, and yet you insist on blaming the voters.

This obsession with voting as the main form of political participation is IMHO childish and doesn’t do justice to the reality of the world.

Can we give this rhetoric a rest? The voting system, the enforced lack of alternatives, hell even really the people who voted for this shit are all much more to blame than people who didn’t vote. Or how about the fact “Multiple Republican-led administrations removed voters from their states’ voter rolls in the lead up to the election”? Or the fact you don’t even vote on the week-end, which is what pretty much all civilised countries do, to give more chances to more people especially poor people to get to the voting stations?

On top of that, how can you know what people who didn’t vote would have voted for? Some of the states with the lowest turnout are one that are historically considered more conservative-leaning (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missisipi, Tennessee). The results could have been “worse” (whatever that means, given the shitshow that is the Electoral College).

Really, it feels like it’s so much easier to blame a subset of people than to confront the fact that, in the US, the majority of the population appears to be for an autocratic asshat who has claimed they wouldn’t need to vote after they vote for him. The US population, as a majority, appear to want this. More people voting may not have changed anything about that.

It’s not surprising that voter turnout is now when you have an unhealthy democracy (because it is a symptom of it). This is a bit like blaming people for eating unhealthily when all that’s available to eat is unhealthy: you’re not wrong that it’s bad for them, but what the fuck are you actually doing do provide better options? So rather than blame those who didn’t vote, for any variety of reasons, get organising. Low turnout is a seed that was planted a long time ago.

You’re completely failing to see that people refusing to vote are not people who “don’t give enough of a fuck”. Sure, there are apathetic people out there, but it’s a gross simplification to think only people who care vote. Or that people who vote care. For many, that’s their one and only participation in participative democracy.

Would you argue that Alan Moore, who wrote Watchmen, V for Vendetta and other cult and politically relevant graphic novels, does not “give enough of a fuck to use his voice”?

OK, I think you missed all the points I made. Never mind.

Oh shut up already, voting systems all over the place have been messed up for ages (Electoral college? First past the post?), proper blank voting (obviously) denied or defanged, opportunities to create alternatives denied years ago, usually by existing parties which are often so entrenched and converging to the right anyway that simplifying to “you can’t complain if you didn’t vote” sounds like the moralising of a first year uni student discovering PolSci.

I vote against shitty candidates and in local elections. I’m under no illusion about its effect and fully respect election boycott and those who refuse to vote.

If you’re not happy about the results of an election, the first to blame are those who voted for the shitty candidate and their policies, not those who said thanks, but none of the above.

I fear at this point the two are not even incompatible.

The blessed generation.

Really? What’s impressive is the quality combined with the small size and reparability.

Framework are doing amazing work.